A Conversation with Hurry's Matt Scottoline
photo credit: Megan Wilson
Last month I had the pleasure of cutting it up with Hurry’s Matt Scottoline. The Philadelphia-based quartet is releasing their fourth album, Fake Ideas, via Lame-O Records on June 25th. A truly remarkable record - it’s the band’s grandest accomplishment yet, taking all the elements from past work and elevating them to more poignant and luscious levels. During our hour-long chat, Matt and I talked about our respective cities, imposter syndrome, the book that complements the record, Weezer, Chris Farren and memories about a Montreal show Matt’s old band Everyone Everywhere played with Gulfer. As always thanks for reading. (also I barely edited this so you’re getting this shit pure)
Hello, Matt. This is Drew.
Hey Drew what's up?
Hey man. How are you doing today?
I'm doing okay. uh, I got to ask you to be honest with me - can you hear me okay?
Yes, I can.
All right. I'm sitting on a small patio, but my giant fucking air conditioner condensers out here and it's running right now. so i can't tell how loud it is for you.
I can barely hear it, it's not bothering me.
Sweet, all right. I just wanted to check, but you can tell me if it bugs you or if it's like bad. So I won’t, I won't be mad.
All right. Well, it's great to finally get to chat with you.
Yeah, man. Um, where do you live?
I live in Indianapolis.
Oh that’s cool!
I mean, yeah it’s dope here. Not a lot of bands ever really comes and plays shows here.
Why do you think that is? Because you're, you're not like ….I’m thinking that usually iI've only been to Indianapolis when we're like between shows and we want to like stop in a real city to get through.
I just think it's right in between Chicago and Cincinnati. And so I just don't think there’s a market here for like indie or emo type bands. It's just not huge here. Like in recent years, like, of course, like right before COVID hit, 2020 was shaping up to be the best year of shows coming to Indianapolis. And then of course, that all didn't happen. But yeah, I keep seeing all these tour announcements and I'm just like, ‘oh no Indianapolis, I guess i might have to drive to Cincinnati or Chicago.’ which is fine. It's not the worst drive, but I don't always … there's just so many artists I always want to see and want to be able to support. It's just really hard to drive to Chicago or Cincinnati like every week.
Yeah I bet.
So I think like the only, so far, the only artists that are coming to Indy this fall that I have interest in is like Deftones are coming in September or so I'll go see them. And then, I don't know. One of our smaller venues here is the Hi-Fi and Big Thief is going to be playing there. So I'm definitely gonna check that out because they're an amazing band.
Oh yeah, they’re great.
But yeah, I keep seeing these tours elsewhere. I'm just like, oh, bummer. Like, I really wanna, you know, financially support these like me. as you know, a lot of money comes from your touring. and so it's just kind of like a bummer - always from the sidelines being like ‘I wish I could pay $25, $30 for a ticket and buy a hundred dollars worth of merch from everyone (laughs).
Are you from Indianapolis or Indiana?
No, I grew up around Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Um, we moved to Indianapolis when I was 14 and then I went to high school and college here. And then a few years after I graduated college, I lived in Los Angeles for a bit. Um, which is like going back to like talk about touring. It was like for me, like a kid in a candy store, like it was like a show every night. I can do that every night.
What years were you living in LA?
I was there between 2012 and 2013.
Okay. I was there in like 08, 09, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, yeah. LA is always good for music. It's good for kind of everything. Absolutely. Except for, uh, rainfall. Yeah.
Right. And then because yeah, I was writing for AbsolutePunk and Spinmedia owned us at the time. And so they finally brought me out there and paid me to write and edit the site. Do you remember Buzznet?
No, I don't remember that.
Yeah. Or, yeah, it was like an early social media type, Myspace-esque website that specialized in pop and pop-punk, I guess. And so like they, the corporation was called Buzzmedia, so they bought AbsolutePunk from Jason (Tate) to work with him and then they brought me on and then they decided to invest in Spin. And so they renamed themselves to Spinmedia. And then shortly after that, they had to lay off like a shit ton of staff who worked there - who would have thought buying a dying medium would be a bad investment, but…
Yeah, it's such a classic shit man.
Yeah. And so that's why I moved back to Indianapolis because my brother and his wife lived here. So I was like, all right. I knew people from high school and college as well. So like, this is a good space to start over and it's super cheap to live here too.
I also personally, like, I love Los Angeles, but I do feel like you have to leave at some point because, uh, I think if you don't, you like lose your mind or turn into like some sort of, uh, uh, bizarro version of yourself. I don't know. It might be in my head, but I, I do sort of feel that way.
I definitely agree with that. Like, cause I know the only, the only people in LA, I know who could live there, their whole lives, like they were born there. So like if you grow up with it, I think you are adjusted to it. You just kinda, that's just your way of living. Like you get whatever the vibe LA has. But for like all the transplants, it's like a good three to five year, like journey through one's life. And then you're like, okay, this is maybe not for me anymore.
Totally. Yeah.
But I love, I still love all my friends out there. Obviously I love to fly out there and visit them. It's a good vacation spot for sure.
Yeah. I love, I still go back to visit, you know, pre pandemic as often as I can. And I think Indianapolis is cool, uh, every time I've like, like I said, I've kind of only made pit stops there because you know, when you're on tour, it's the same as like, if you're on a road trip or something like, you always want to try to stop in like a cool place. And like, you know, it's nice to stop and like a real city where you can find like good restaurants or whatever. Um, and Indianapolis has always kinda been that for me. It's funny. Cause like when you tour, you're only ever in whatever place for like the night. So like a lot of times your entire opinion of a city can be colored by like the show or the venue or like a weird thing that happened at the show, whatever it is. So like for me … it's funny because Indianapolis, I have this like rosy idea of it, like in my head, I really like it because my only memories of there are like making a really nice pitstop and like getting good food that I liked. And uh, I don't have any bad, there's no baggage for me.
Yeah. No, I mean, really, my biggest complaint is just a lack of shows that the city gets, but I know some of the venues here are trying, trying to get more diverse acts here that's not just like a big radio headliner type of deal or like stadium shows.
Yeah. Um, I, I think it'll happen like that. I feel like cities like Indianapolis are like really coming up right now because like all the big cities are getting too expensive and you know, uh, I just think that's like a thing that's going to be happening for the next like five to 10 years.
Yeah, we got some really nice venues. Like I said, like the Hi-Fi is really cool - last April before it got shut down, like Deafheaven and Greet Death were coming here together. And that was going to be an awesome show, but I don't even think they rescheduled that, but like, um, when I talked to Evan from Into It. Over It. last fall, he said like, they were planning on playing at the Hi-Fi before everything got shut down too. So this is what it is. Yeah.
But yeah, at least I think that, you know, that's a good sign, I think it'll happen.
Yeah. Yeah. And again, Cincinnati is a two hour drive and Chicago is four hours. So if it's someone I really want to see, I'll always make the effort for that too. Um, but yeah, we, uh, my dog had surgery today, so that's what my day was like, she had a…
Oh my God.
Oh nothing bad happened! It was planned, like she's seven and she had a cracked tooth, so she had to get a tooth removed today. So she's doing great, just a little drugged…
It’s still scary.
Yeah. She's a little drugged up, but she's doing great. So that has been my day today. Um, what about you?
Uh, I'm fine. I've been fine. Uh, yeah.
Is it weird to be gearing up for like a record release after everything that's happened over like the last 16 months or so?
Yeah. I mean, well, yeah, it is weird. I mean, uh, you know, I have like a weird relationship with it because I pretty much finished the album I finished tracking, like right, right. Before everything shut down. And then it got mastered like really early in 2020 when the pandemic kinda kicked off. And, uh, so I've been sitting with it for a long time. So like, you know, when it first came back, I was like listening to it and like, I was happy with it. And then you sort of like put it away and, uh, there are some like false starts with when it would get released. And uh, you know, it's been sort of this, like, it's just been like a thing, you know? So, uh, now that it's actually out, it's certainly a relief, but you know, with the whole situation, it's just like a different feeling than normal because, you know, um, uh, you know, I think it's a myth.
Like I think every artist feels like they have a lot of control over how a release goes. Uh, you know, when you feel like, you know, you're putting your record out and you want to have this like amazing album cycle and you want to like do this and that, and, and play these shows and whatever. And you know, it is sort of all an illusion. I don't think anyone really has control over it, but right now it's like… I feel like I have no control like there, cause there's just not a lot going on. There's not shows there's no like big like release party for it at any venue or, uh, you know, so it's, it's definitely like a unique thing. Um, and then the other thing is like, I don't have any shows planned, uh, because you know, I don't want to get like too in the weeds, but you know, like all the tours going right now are, you know, it's … I've been talking to like friends who are in sort of like - you know, I consider myself in the super indie playing field of the industry right now but like above me, there's sorta like, uh, I dunno what they call it, I'll call it like “professional indie.”
Um, and you know, that world, you know, all the tours that are coming out are sort of like… it’s like the cogs in the machine that they're all trying to start turning the machine again. And like the booking agents who want to start making money again, they want to book shows but if you're, if you're a band that like doesn't usually operate in that sphere, like you typically do like tours more DIY or whatever it is like venues aren't really taking chances on shows like that right now. Like, they're really, um, so for me, I'm kinda kinda like, I feel stuck in a way cause, cause I, it's not a thing I can control. Um, and uh, I just have to kind of sit tight and see kind of what happens and feel it out because you know, there's a chance someone might bring me on a tour.
You know, I don't know. I hope that happens, but, uh, it's not a situation where I can like start booking my own tour. So it is, it is weird and it, it does lead to like some feelings. It's a mixed thing. Cause like, it's of course I want to be out there and I'm going to play and I want to like tour on the record. Um, but it is like on the, on the other side of that, there is this like zen state about it, where you're just like, I'm putting this record out and that's all I'm doing. Uh, you know, whatever happens happens. And you sort of like in a way, it allows you to sort of like break out of that like competitive rat race sort of thing that it's so easy to get caught up in a lot of the time.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. Earlier this year, I was speaking with Stevie from Adult Mom about their record and Missy from Mannequin Pussy too about their recent EP. And they're like, you know, it's kind of like this weird type of freedom you have where it's like, ‘all right, here's the record!’ And like, you don't have to like - like you said, like a cog in the machine - you don't have to be like, ‘oh shit, this is the week of release I got do this and I got to promote that.’ And like, you kind of lose sense of like what you even created, cause you're just still worried about everything else surrounding it.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, usually it is like in most times I feel like the album cycle is like kind of a hectic time, you know, there's like, um, and this is sort of the complete opposite of that where it's just been like, um, it's been like an exercise almost in like deprogramming, how I think about a lot of this stuff. And um, and, and you know, it's not easy and it does get frustrating and, and like you want to make the most of every opportunity you have, but I think there is something to be said for, you know, just like chilling out and sitting with that feeling of like, you know, here's this record it's getting out there and, uh, that's it. Yeah. We'll see what happens, you know? And it's not all bad. I don't know the real numbers off the top of my head, but I know that like, from the moment in time where I'm talking to you right now, like the record is pre-ordering better than any of our other records in the past, even without like all the, you know, normal time stuff going on around it. So maybe that's just some natural growth, you know, as being a band that releases music. But I think there's good and bad with the whole situation and when it comes to all this stuff.
Yeah, absolutely. I tweeted out like a week or two showing off the last Hurry record with the tri-color variant. And you were like, ‘oh, I forgot how cool that variant is.’ It's such a cool variant and I like the variants that you guys came up with for Fake Ideas - I bought the half and half because I love a good half and half. So did you have a pretty big input on how you want your vinyl mock-ups to look as far as like the variants go?
Yeah. I picked all of those. Um, and yeah, Lame-O - they're an amazing label to work with and they're really like artist-focused and they pretty much said yes to everything. Um, and they've changed too. I think they've learned a lot over the years. Like the last few records we always just did a color one and there's a black one. And the color one, there's like 250 of them and then the rest are all black. So they did say like, ‘you're going to do X-amount of variants of this,’ but they left it up to me - like what they would be. And they didn't really say like, ‘you can't do this, you can't do a splatter cause it's going to cost too much money or whatever it is.’ And also with the sleeve, like when I was working with Frances (Quinlan) on the art and everything, my vision for it was to have a die cut sleeve, which certainly adds to the cost, but they were totally chill about it. And even with like the, the book thing, like I'm throwing a book in which like it's a real book. It's not like it's not pieces of paper stapled together. You know, it's like a bound thing. Um, and even that they were like totally cool with. So yeah, to answer your original question - they were my ideas and I tried to just pick colors that I felt like worked with the palette of everything. And, you know, I've always, I've always enjoyed that element of like, trying to like make this cohesive package where everything feels thoughtful and everything's feels considered. And I'm lucky that Lame-O just like, lets me do it.
They’re such an awesome label. And like, I'm glad you brought up the book because your PR sent me a PDF of it and I spent the last like week or two just kind of reading through it on my computer. And it's such a cool idea. Like, I know you were inspired by the A.J. Jacobs’ book and it’s just great. I don't think the people who pre-ordered the record really know what a great addition they’re getting to this record and like how really cool it is and how you literally talk to almost like everyone who was involved with the creation of this record and like not a lot of artists give that kind of insight into how everything kind of gets created. And so that's so cool. Do you think that one benefit of writing this record so long ago help lead to the idea of ‘oh, maybe there's something else I can add to this?’ Like did having that extra time kind of lead to being able to do this book idea?
It did. Yeah, the book doesn’t exist if you imagine a universe where the pandemic didn't happen, this is a funny thing to say because I'm sure everybody likes to imagine that. But I think if the record…I don't really know when it would have come out if there wasn't a pandemic, but let's say it would've come out last summer - I don't think there would have been a book. I think the book was born out of me feeling kind of stifled creatively and wanting to find something to do while I was sort of biding my time with. And I have like a weird thing where it's hard for me to write new music until the last thing I released is out there. It's like, it's almost like a wall goes up in my head. It's like you can't make new music yet - you have to wait. Um, and also with the pandemic, from like a mental health place, like I just wasn't, I wasn't in a place where I wanted to write music really. Um, you know, it took, it probably took me until last summer before I even really picked a guitar up again, just for like, just for fun, you know? Like it wasn't a priority for me, but anyway I was really thinking about like, what else I could do to be creative and, and like have a project to work on. And, um, it wasn't originally born as something focused on the album, but as I started, I was playing around with the idea of doing like a book that was a collection of conversations.
And I was thinking about doing it with other musicians. I know other artists I know. And, um, and sometime in that thought process, it occurred to me, you know, I had just recently read that Jacob's book on gratitude. And I think I maybe saw something online … Ryan Schwabe who mastered our record and he's in the book. He’s a pretty outspoken member of the recording academy. And, um, I think maybe he had posted something how like the streaming platforms were starting to add production credits and things like that on the platform. Cause because a lot of the times, besides the liner notes if someone buys a physical version of a record, like you really get no recognition if you're like an engineer or producer or a mastering person or, um, you know, you're sort of just like only the true nerds will ever know you did anything. So I just started thinking about all that stuff and I got kind of inspired by that and that's kinda what set it off and, and got the concept going. But, but yeah, I mean, it, it wasn't something that was part of the original plan and was a product of the pandemic sort of like giving me the opportunity to ruminate on that stuff a little bit.
I think it's so cool because I think that it’ll helps people fall even more in love with this record. I was saying, I think it was just so cool that this like one that the book is legit. And you talk to like really creative people too. It's not just like you’re talking to a regular boring person like me, you're talking to people who do really awesome things and,
Um, don't sell yourself short!
(laughs) Thanks. Also it’s really cool with Frances doing the art. I mean, have you, have you known them for a minute?
Yeah, I probably met Frances in like 2010 or 2011 when Everyone Everywhere played like a New Year's Eve show in Lancaster, Pennsylvania in like a punk house. And, um, and, and Frances played that show and we didn't really talk very much, but anyway, like Frances, like we live like roughly in the same neighborhood in Philly and, um, you know, I work for a coffee roaster as like a day job kind of thing. And, um, you know, I see Frances like constantly at the coffee shop and, we just run into each other all the time. So, but I've known them for like probably around 10 years. Um, and Philly is, you know, like any city where there's like a music scene, like everyone kinda knows everybody.
Yeah. Philly is bustling, man. I there's, I feel like the majority of like my favorite artists are all from there or like anyone who I've talked to recently, they live in Philly and it's like, I'm sure at times that can be like very like creatively fulfilling and advantageous to you. Like you see friends every day and then you can ask them for a favor and create art, but do you ever really feel like imposter syndrome or like pressure being in a city that's like very vibrant with their music and art scene right now?
Totally. Yeah. All the time. All the time. Yeah. You know, and I think, I think everybody does, like, I, that's something that, you know, I've learned a lot about myself over the last couple of years, you know, and like some of that is like going to therapy and like kind of like working through things like imposter syndrome. And then it's also like, you know, having honest conversations with people. Um, and that's something I've been trying to do actually over this past year. Cause I feel like it's been this opportunity for, um, for artists to kind of like, you know, for me to like talk to people outside of like the game you know, and it's not, it's, it's not to say that, like I only talk to people when it's like advantageous or because like it suits one of us or something, but you know, when like when everything's happening and shows are going on, like everybody's feeling imposter syndrome and everybody's trying to like make things work and, uh, you know, like, so I have been like having more conversations with people this year, like more frank and honest conversations.
Um, just because like, you know, I think, I think for all of us, like pulling out of that for a year or more, you know, um, kind of opened our eyes and it hit everybody in different ways, you know? But it gives you a sense of clarity because you're like you can more objectively look at like how you've been approaching music and how you've been approaching the idea of a career in music and like what you do and don't want to be doing. And from everybody I've talked to this year, like, I think everybody's experiencing a version of that. And, you know, I do think there are certainly going to be people who fall right back into place and like, you know, they don't really miss a beat, but I think there's going to be a lot of artists too, who don't do the same stuff they used to do or, um, or at least do it in a different way that's a little more healthy. But, but yeah, I mean, to get back to your, the original thing you brought up, like in normal times in Philly, like it's, so it can be like so crazy because there are, there are so many great artists in the city and, you know, if you're playing like a local show in Philly on a Friday night, there's probably like six other amazing shows you could go to. And, you know, it's like it's hard not to feel imposter syndrome and like feel kind of crazy with that environment. But, you know, I think you have to look at it the other way and just sort of like understand you're in this like special place and you know, it's actually it's a good thing that you're in that environment, but I do think, you know, I, but imposter syndrome I think is, you know, I truly believe everybody has imposter syndrome, no matter whether you're a musician or you're a writer or you work at a factory, like whatever it is, I think everybody has it. It's just a matter of like, are you in touch with yourself enough to realize that you do.
Yeah. I feel it every time I am about to interview any musician and they're just going to be like, wow, this guy is a fraud. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know anything about the record or the song. I totally, I totally get that. It can come from anywhere.
Like, I think everybody feels empowered no matter what you do, you feel imposter syndrome. And the challenge is to recognize it. And I think a big part of that is that people don't want to admit it, or like they're afraid of, of like showing vulnerability. And that's why, like, that's why your peers won't tell you, like, ‘Hey, I feel like no one likes me.’ Right? Like, no one wants to say that because it's, you know, it puts you in a vulnerable position. But I've talked to friends of mine who were in bands that are way more successful than my band is. And like, they all feel exactly the same way. And, um, and I refuse to believe that that's not the case for like any creative person.
Oh, absolutely. And speaking more about like your friends, I mean, how upset were you at Chris (Farren) for making your video all about him being topless? (laughs)
Uh (laughs) I was not upset at all. I kind of knew what I was asking for it because when I pitched him the idea for the video, um, and aliens came up and, and then it came up that he would play the aliens. I, uh, I had a feeling, I had a feeling and, you know, if I can provide a platform for Chris to be topless, um, I'm happy with that. You know?
I mean, that's probably why it's so wildly successful.
Yeah, it is. I think someone I read somewhere, it was the most successful video ever, ever produced. I can't, I can't remember where I read that. It might've been the New York Times.
Yeah, it sounds right. Um, yeah. I mean, I've, I've known Chris for a few years too. Like, I mean what a unique mind when it comes to stuff like that.
Yeah. I mean, I, I mean, that is the reason that I went to him. Like, I've, I've known Chris a while and, um, you know, he is genuinely, I think he's like one of the most supportive people I know. Um, like even before he and I had ever met, he always gets mad. Cause he says, my old band played a show with his old band and we met and I don't remember it, which is probably true. But anyway like he was like supporting my music as Hurry, like before he and I really ever became friends. Um, and like, you know, he was like buying stuff from me online and I was like, ‘you have to stop doing this. Like, you don't have to do this.’ And, um, but you know, he's like one of the most creative people I know. And he's also like one of the hardest working people I know. And, um, and you know, I had this fun idea for this video and, um, and I knew it was going to be like heavily like CG-kind of like goofy effect stuff..
Yeah it looked like it cost a lot. (laughs)
(laughs) It didn't, it costs very little. Um, but I basically was like, I texted him and I was like, have you ever thought about directing a music video? And he said, ‘no.’ And I said, okay, well I want you to direct a music video and I'm pretty sure you can do it. And I think you'll do a great job. And luckily he was like, ‘okay.’ And we had a bunch of like FaceTime meetings where like, you know, I pitched him the idea. He would like brainstorm his ideas and be like, you know, a lot of like riffing with each other. And so we sorta like plotted the whole thing out, but, but neither of us knew how to do any of that stuff beforehand. And, and, uh, you know, YouTube … that video was made possible entirely by YouTube tutorials.
Oh, I'm sure. That's how I do most of the things now. And I have to like fix something or learn something like go to YouTube, someone's done something with this. And if I need to change the oil in my car, I go to YouTube.
Yeah, totally! I'm so grateful to him because like, it was the type of thing that like, could I have like, learned to do it on my own if I watched enough YouTube tutorials, like definitely. But, uh, you know, I didn't have … I wasn't, I wasn't going to do that. And, and Chris did it and he was motivated and he was driven and he's a good person. And, um, I am grateful because, uh, it wouldn't have happened without him.
Yeah. I know. It's, it's really cool to have a Hurry video directed by someone who had a billboard of himself on Sunset Boulevard. That's the big selling point of that. I think.
One of the most famous people in the entire world.
The the song is great. I think, um, I was looking through the liner notes on my vinyl for Every Little Thought. And so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first record with Justin (Fox) playing guitar on it, correct?
Yes, it is.
And I know in, in the book you go a little bit more into like, not necessarily like your hesitation of adding a second guitarist. It's like, it wasn't like very like egocentric, but which I think will be interesting when people read that chapter of the book. But before I read the book, I had the advance of Fake Ideas. I was just like, this record just sounds a little more full, a little more luscious than Every Little Thought. And then once I started reading the book, I was like, ‘oh, maybe that's why.’
Yeah. I mean, Justin is like a very good guitar player. He's certainly better at guitar than I am. But I will say that I still think some of this stuff on the record is songwriting stuff. Um, you know one of the things for me with, with Justin kind of coming aboard, it's like, you know, he was still playing parts that I wrote, but, you know, he certainly adds like his own style to it. And no guitar player plays the same part the same way. And, um, that was definitely something that was like a personal, I dunno, ‘struggle’ seems like it's too strong of a word, but like I'm so used to being a control freak about these records, um, that to like give up playing those parts to Justin and like hearing him play them differently than I wrote them but like having to sort of like tell myself to like, ‘stop thinking about it,’ because like releasing that control is ultimately better and he made the parts better by playing them the way he played them. But like, it was like a weird thing for me where I was like, uh, there was like an internal struggle where I had to sort of like understand that it was okay and, and, uh, had to not freak myself out too much about it. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, right now.
Nah, that makes total sense. But I think like the book does a really good job of like explaining that kind of mindset and everything as well too with your chat with them too, which again, like, that's just another great added benefit of this book. It's just like, you learn just so much more about the record than just like the surface level of it by just streaming it. It's so cool.
Yeah. I hope that people … I keep thinking about what you said earlier in this conversation, and how it's like, it's hard to get across exactly what this book is to people. And, uh, I am struggling with that right now. Cause I do feel like I wish I could do a better job of explaining to potential buyers, like what this thing is, and I don't know how to do it. Uh, so if you have any good ideas on how I can be marketing this thing, please let me know.
Yeah (laughs). Like when I was pre-ordering it, it was like ‘hey! It comes to the book,’ and I was like, ‘okay? that's cool. I can't wait to check it out.’ But like now that I know what this book’s whole vibe is I can't imagine this record releasing without this book. It just feels like it goes hand in hand. It's really cool.
I mean, I'm thrilled that you're saying that. Now I really want to figure out how to make more people know that, you know.
You could just put out: “Hey, Drew Beringer likes it. Buy the book.”
That's true. Yeah. That is the ultimate endorsement. Maybe I can, uh, stop the presses real quick and put like a blurb on the back.
(laughs) Yeah you could just put “This goes really well with the record. It works well.” I just really enjoyed this record and you just put out a new single this week, “A Fake Idea.” And the first two singles I think are just like such a real nice introduction to like the total vibe of the record. But like, I love “Doomsday.” It’s like a really cool, like fast song, which really took me by surprise the first time I listened to it. Um, yeah that song plainly rocks.
Yeah, I'm glad. Um you're the first feedback I've gotten on that. I think that it’s in there almost entirely to be surprising. Cause it was actually the first song I wrote when I started writing songs again in preparation for this record. And I think I wrote it. I'm not even thinking what it was for. I was just like, I feel like writing a punk song and then I didn't. Uh, and I think I sent it to like my bandmates after I wrote it and recorded a demo of it. And then it just sorta like hung around. Cause I did go through like a lot of writing for this record. I think I probably wrote like 30 songs before I then wrote the songs that ended up on the record. Like it was, you know, I just, sometimes that happens where you write a lot and I'm sure it happens with writing that you do too, where you write a lot and it's like, nothing's feeling like a hundred percent and then you do one one thing and you're like, oh, holy shit. Like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing right now. Um, and it took me about 30 songs before I wrote a song and I was like, oh, okay. I think I found like what the groove is here. Um, but I kept listening to that “Doomsday” demo and I was like, it would be cool to put this on the record because it won't really make any sense and it'll be like a genre departure. But, but as a whole, like I try to do that. I know, I feel like every person who like makes a record thinks like, oh, ‘I did this’ or, ‘oh, I did that.’ And then people listening to it are like, ‘oh, it sounds like the last one.’ But you know, I do believe that this record is like the most diverse and like kind of, uh, tries the most amount of things compared to the other ones.
Oh, I definitely agree with that. I mean, but even the first time I listened to it picked up on that, right? Like my ears are perking up. I was like, this is like, not like no disrespect to Every Little Thought cause that's a great record too. But this one, it's just like, I feel like one through ten on here, it's just like a level up from that record. And I love the second half of the record. There's like that, that three song sequence of “Sometimes I'm Not There,” “Slogging Through Summer,” and “How To Cope,” which I just feel like is really like the kind of like the heart and soul of this record.
Yeah. I like that you said that, Hey, I think, uh, yeah, that's the type of thing I hope people would say.
Yes. I mean, it definitely comes across like those are very important songs. I always come back to those every time I listened to it. And I just think those are some of the best songs you've ever written in either of your bands.
I appreciate it. I mean, yeah, this is like, this is legitimately the first, like I'm going to call this real feedback. The first real of feedback I've gotten on those songs. Cause like you know, my band mates don't count and uh, the label doesn't really count either.
Yeah, they have to like it. (laughs)
Yeah. They're forced to like it. (laughs) I really do appreciate it. And then I'm sure it's the same with your writing. Like you're dying for some feedback, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. I don't care if it's good or bad I just want someone to be reading it when you know what I'm saying?
Totally. But, but also like, you know, like to me, at least those songs maybe “Slogging through summer” doesn't count into this, but like, they're not like, uh, I don't know. They're, either a little bit dark horsey, I would say. So, you know, as the person who wrote them and like, I feel the way I feel about those songs, it's nice to hear someone also like them.
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. Like it's really interesting. It's really cool. Cause it's like, it's obviously still like a Hurry record. It's not like people are gonna hit play and be like, who the fuck is this band? What happened? But it's definitely varied and diverse enough from the previous releases that, you know, it's just, it's just… I feel like it's a very exciting release. And when you told me that it's doing really well with pre-orders, it doesn't surprise me because “It's Dangerous” is an awesome song. And that got me excited right away. Even before I heard the whole record to just pre-order it. And I think the two songs you released so far. Yeah, I think people are just gonna be like, wow, this is, this is definitely … there's a little something extra here from the last record. I think there's a palpable excitement around this record.
Wow. I hope you're right.
I think I'm right. I'm usually pretty good at this stuff, but I think it's going to turn a lot of heads in a way that, the last record, then it, I guess that sounds really like a backhanded compliment, but it's not supposed to be, but..
No, I mean, I, you know, I think I don't disagree with you being the person who made them is like live with them. I mean, I can't complain about how any of our records have done and we've got to do cool stuff and you know, whatever. But yeah I have this thing that I say to like people I'm friends with and people in my band and anyone, basically anyone in my circle who has heard this record ahead of like it coming to press and coming, going online. And anytime someone tells you it's good or something like my self-deprecating joke is that like every band who's ever released a bad album always thinks it's the best album they've ever made. Like, I mean, I'm sure there's exceptions to that, but almost like we've all loved bands who have put out a horrible album and, but in the leading up to the release, they're all just like, ‘oh yeah, we, we did this and that it's so good and blah, blah, blah.’ And then you listen to like, ‘what are they talking about?’ So I always have that fear where like … I do always feel like the newest thing I made is the best thing I've made. And you know, I don't think I would release it if I didn't feel that way. But there is always that like sneaky fear. That's like, am I completely wrong? You know? Like, is this, is this actually terrible?
Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. Like as being a Weezer fan for the last 30 years, I, I constantly struggle with that every, every couple of years.
Oh yeah, I’m right there with you. Where do you fall off the train? Is it like linear for you or did you fall off and come back on?
I would say I fell off the train probably the late 2000s, early 2010s with like Ratitude and Hurley and stuff like that. It's just like, yeah, this just kind of sucks. But I got back on the train with, uh, Everything Will Be All Right In The End. And honestly I've liked everything they've put out over the last seven years. They've put out like 10 records over the last seven years, but I don't know. I love the two records they've put out this year and I've just gotten to the point where it's like, man, like people who like kinda dog on his lyrics, I'm like, well, you should go back re-listen to Blue. And then we realized that those lyrics are also cheesy dogshit lyrics too. Like, it's just, that's just Weezer lyrics, you know? But my issue with, I always felt like those records, they were phoning it in and it feels like the last couple of records they've least like put effort into making … they don't sound like robots, just making rock music and going play in a festival in the field type of music.
Yeah. I mean, I feel like, I feel like he's also taken on more song writing help these days too. Um, which, which is probably helping like get out of his spot a little bit or like just like open the doors a little bit more, but I I'm with you. I was definitely a Weezer apologist for a long time. And then I think Hurley was the record where I was like, I can't do this anymore. And, uh, you know, even Ratitude I found stuff to like on it, just in like how preposterous that was…
There's a song of Lil Wayne on it. Like, how can you hate that song, I guess?
Yeah. Like it was, it was so like, that record is completely insane, but in a way that's like almost charming. Um, and then, yeah, and then I haven't kept up quite as much. I agree with you. Everything Will Be All Right In The End is where I was like, ‘Hey, they're back a little bit.’ Um, and then this week I was listening to Van Weezer a little bit. It's okay. But it's like, like I do like some of the songs, but some of it is like, it's a little, it's a little much for me, for sure.
Yeah, it’s super cheeseball for sure.
Yeah. But at least it's like aware, I guess.
Absolutely.
But some of those are good. That song , uh what's it called? It's the one that was on that Bill and Ted soundtrack…
Yeah. Um, I know you're talking about
Speaker 2 (00:49:43):
“Beginning of the End.” Yeah that song is good. I like that song.
I know that they played, um, “All The Good Ones” on Fallon or something. And I remember telling one of my friends was like, this is like “Beverly Hills” without like the terrible “Beverly Hills” lyrics. It's like, literally like the same, it's like the same kind of like be, and like, like even like the guitars, it's like exactly how they go in “Beverly Hills.”
I feel like they're one of those bands where if they would make a record, almost any of the records they've put out in the last, like 10 years, if they would've made one of them in a, in like a more DIY fashion or just like not, not in like a $2 million studio in Hollywood. Like I do think there's a thing where with a lot of artists, like the quality of production can like distract from the songs. And I think with Weezer sometimes it's just like too perfect sounding and that perfection of the recording, like there's almost no emotion to it. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah I know exactly what you’re saying. Like, I think all that negative feedback he got after Pinkerton just like, obviously completely changed the course of how Weezer was going to be as a band going forward. And, but like, I think there's some truth to what you're saying, because they put out Ok Human in January, they don't play, there's no guitar on it. Or like no electric guitar. It's all like sympathy and acoustic guitar and stuff like that. And I was, I'm kind of like stripping it back and he actually sounds like a sincere human on it, but yeah, like if anyone could ever, it would never happened cause he's like the most like elusive man to give a straight answer, but like an actual, like deep dive oral history on the band would be such a wild thing to read.
Yeah. I mean, I know I listened to when he was on the Mark Maron show like years ago and I listened to that, but like, it was, so it was so funny. Cause like Mark Maron was trying to press him and be like, yeah, get in there. And he would just be like, ‘huh, I don't know what you're talking about, whatever.’ Like, but I feel the same way. Like I think about it a lot. Cause I'm like a big like Beach Boys fan and I love Brian Wilson and he, you know, he doesn't put out records as much these days, but in like the late Oughts like he was putting records out. Um, and like they, the songs were good, but they were produced so pristinely that like, it sounded like Disneyworld music or something like it just, you know, like if you listen to like Pet Sounds or if you listen to Smile, right, like there's, you can hear the room and you can hear the people and it's not perfect. And it's a little messy and like, you know, I think Weezer has the same problem where like, it's, it doesn't sound that way. It doesn't always sound like a band anymore. It sounds like a product, you know? Yeah.
No, absolutely. They are one of the more infuriating bands that I will always love.
Same.
Like I just, I can't not love them. Yeah. I will always be an apologist, especially for some of the newer records where people have given up on them, like they’ll only listen to Green and then be done. I'm like, well man, you missed on Maladroit. That thing has some rifts that that's actually like my second or third favorite Weezer record.
I mean, they all have, they all have bright spots. Oh, absolutely. Um, but yeah, I mean the guy who plays bass in Hurry hates Weezer. I mean, he, you know, he likes blue and Pinkerton, but he's like, he's at the camp of like, everything they've done since then is like godawful and embarrassing. And uh, for a while we had “Don't Let Go” from Green in our, like, uh, our bag of covers that we would use at shows sometimes and getting him to love that song and agree to do it was like pulling teeth. He was so against it.
Yeah. I mean, having that mindset where someone's like, ‘yeah, I only like the first two records’ is one you can totally understand, right? Like “you know what? I can understand why you don’t like the band anymore.” You can't even fight it. You're like, ‘Yeah. That makes sense why you would fall off after Green.
Yeah. I mean, even if you love Weezer, you know that the first two are the best.
Like undoubtedly. Yeah.
I would love to have a conversation with someone who thinks that like, uh, I dunno, who thinks the Red Album is like the greatest Weezer album. That would be amazing to talk to them, but I don't know if they're out there.
It is a good social experiment for sure. Yeah. My wife hates Weezer and I'm just like, “Babe, it’s just because you're not a middle aged white man.” (laughs) Like this is music for middle-aged white men really, or people who really go hard for “Africa” - like it’s one or the other. Those are the only two. Um, but yeah, you've been sitting on this record forever. Like what have you been listening to over like the last year and a half plus that just like, that really jazzes you up?
Um, you know, I mean, I I'm like a broken record, but, um, you know, I've been listening, I listened to a lot of music by Teenage Fanclub, um, you know, especially, um, albums like Songs from Northern Britain and Grand Prix and like I think with Hurry, I started it as a side project when Everyone Everywhere was still kind of going and, um, you know, at the time, like Hurry is sort of always been informed by what I've been listening to at the time. And back then it was like, um, the first Yuck record was like really big and, and like that the first Best Coast record. And, and those were like hitting so hard. And then I, I got caught up for a little while in this aesthetic, like after I made the first album, which was like super fuzzy and loud. Um, and after that I was like, okay, now I'm going to do the opposite of that. And I had like rules in the studio and the rule was like, ‘any time you would use a more distorted guitar for a part, you're going to go the opposite way and use like a cleaner guitar.’ And, you know, it like it gamified it a little bit but it was like, I just got in a zone where I was like, this is what I have to do, because like, I need to do the exact opposite of the thing I just did. And, um, and that was the album Guided Meditation, which is like, you know, definitely has an aesthetic to it. And then, and then I think with Every Little Thought I learned a lot from the previous and I was like, okay, let me kind of not - I hesitate to say perfect, but like I do kind of feel like I sort of like hit the ceiling of that aesthetic with that record. Right. Um, so like when I started writing for this one, I started to just like relax a little bit and maybe not feel so much like I had to worry about those more esoteric aesthetic choices and, you know, the beauty of music like those Teenage Fanclub records is that like, there's so earnest and the songwriting is so good and, they're just, that's all it is. And, and, you know, you listen to like, like stuff like Nick Lowe or like, um, you know, that's sort of been this like tradition or over time of like … and I think I was, I was afraid of doing that for a long time. I was afraid of like simply writing like power pop songs and, and like, not feeling like if I didn't do something on top of that, people would think it's like not cool.
Or, um, I don't know. I just felt this, like, it was almost like, it wouldn't be cool enough if I simply wrote pop music and recorded it in an earnest way. Um, because like, that's usually not the kind of thing that like gets buzzed or is like flashy or whatever. So I think like with this record, that the thing I eventually realized and talking about that process, I mentioned earlier where I've written like so many songs and none of them felt completely right to me. And it was, it was like kind of sitting down and just like writing something where I wasn't trying to do anything, it's almost like meditation. It was like, I gave up the pressure of like of considering all of that. And, uh, so I don't know if I can attribute the direction on this record so much to any like specific set of things I was listening to. And, and to be, to be honest with you, like, I don't even remember specifically what I was listening to because it's been so long. But you know, I mean, I think it it's been this like journey for me of discovering music like that, or, or, you know, like the Guided By Voices records from like the 2000s, like, um, like, like Do The Collapse or Isolation Drills, um, you know, which is in a way is kind of the same thing. Like, cause that's when like Robert Pollard was trying to like write radio hits, and so they're all just like shiny pop songs, so for me that was almost the experiment was like doing nothing and just writing the best songs I could write and just recording them in a way that was a little more straight up and a little more earnest and not really hiding behind an aesthetic or something, you know?
Yeah Fake Ideas definitely has like, kind of like a, a looser vibe to it.
Definitely. We recorded a lot of it to tape also, which I think helps with that. Um, you know, which we hadn't done. I don't think Hurry had ever recorded the tape before. I think Everyone Everywhere, maybe we did that, but you know, like all that stuff just sort of like, uh, the consideration was not considering anything if that makes any sense, but really just trying to focus on the songs and the craft of it a little bit more.
That's awesome. Um, yeah, I guess, um, to kind of wrap it up, I would ask how good does it feel to relieve the guys from Gulfer of any doubt they've had from seven years ago putting on a show with you?
That was, yeah, that was very wild to me. Cause I didn't know, I knew Gulfer as a band, but I didn't know that they were the same people I interacted with back then. And, uh, and it was really funny cause my, like, I don't remember any of the stuff they pointed out, but maybe, I don't know if I blocked it out or, or what, but, uh, I feel bad that they thought I hated them or something, but, uh, I, I loved going to Montreal. I, I think about that, that a lot actually. Uh, I always remember when we were driving there, we stopped in Saratoga Springs, New York on the way to Montreal. And I had just read this novel by Jonathan Ames that took place there. And in the, in the novel, the characters would get like really drunk and then they would drive to Saratoga Springs to drink from the Sulfur Springs.
Um, and I made the whole band stop it and like hunt down one of these Sulfur Springs in Saratoga Springs. And we all, we all drank from the Sulfur Spring, which was kind of disgusting, but yeah I feel good that Gulfer won’t feel as guilty anymore. I know, although I can't, you know what, I can't speak for the rest of Everyone Everywhere. So I don't know. Maybe, maybe some of them are harboring a lot of resentment and uh, maybe I just wasn't around for those conversations because admittedly I tried to absolve myself from handling most, uh, band management things back then.
No, that makes total sense. It's like what you said earlier, like you can think of a city in a positive light or interaction just based on like our restaurant or like an interaction you had. And that sounds like when you're tweeted back and forth, that's kind of like what happened there is like, like I have fond memories, we went to this cool spot, like stuff like that. So yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, again, like maybe it's completely possible that one of my band mates in that band like, was angry for some reason, but if, if they were, I didn't know about it or I forgot about it, but, uh, but yeah, like I generally, I think you always remember the good stuff like, and I think that's like, you know, I don't want to get to like a life lesson-y, but I feel like, uh, I think we can all learn something from that. And maybe in the moment when things feel bad, you can just remember like, you'll probably fondly look back on that moment at some point.
Yeah. And now we just have to book a Gulfer and Hurry “Squash The Beef” tour now.
Do that. I want to do it. Well, if I had known, if I had known it was the same person all this time, I would have been begging them to come back to Montreal for forever. I was so fun going there. Have you ever been to Montreal?
I have never been to Canada, but, uh, my wife has..
You live so close. You should go.
Yeah, it's not too far, I guess.
Yeah, you're not that far from Canada now.
It'd probably be like, what? 10, 12 hours? Maybe I got to drive through Michigan…
Well, yeah. I mean to get to Montreal from, from Indianapolis would be a little bit of a hike.
Yeah. But it sounds like it's worth it. I mean, I've always had kind of like a fascination with some of the bigger Canadian cities and it's always on my list. It's just something I just never make the time for, but I'll need to eventually.
Yeah. I mean, a lot of the Canadian cities are really nice. The reason I think Montreal is so cool - speaking for me at least - is it feels pretty, it feels very like European when you're there. It doesn't, um, like it really, a lot of times like you go to Toronto or you go to like Ottawa or whatever, like it's nice, but you don't really feel like you're in another country. Um, but when you're in Montreal, you're like, you do feel like you're in another country.
Well it's cause it all that there's like that big French connection to it, correct? Like it's really, it's almost like French a second tongue there, right?
Totally, yeah. Yeah. The way I understand it, actually I think the dude from Gulfer told me this is like the city Montreal is kind of like split in half. There's like a French half of the city and like an English half of the city. And um, and I think Quebec City is the one that's like, it's like all French. Like if you go to Quebec City, and you only speak English, you're going to have to like do a little work. Um, so Montreal is kind of like this funny hybrid. I've never been in Quebec City, but, um, I'm sure it's like even more intense than Montreal, but yeah, you should definitely go. It's worth the trip and it's not too hard to do.
Nah, not at all. Well, Matt, I appreciate you taking a good hour out of your afternoon to speak with me about anything really.
No, I mean, I've, I've, I've had a good time. This is a fun time for me.
Oh good. I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. And um, maybe if you're driving through Indianapolis one day or maybe even playing a show, I wouldn't be opposed to that. Um, I'll definitely be there. Yeah.
I'll definitely give you a shout next time. I'm through there, whether it's, uh, playing or if I'm stopping for one of those steamed bagels, you know the steamed bagels.
Oh yeah, we'll definitely hit that up.
Yeah I bring that up and people look at me like I'm crazy, but that's, that's like one of the foods I remember from it.
No, I know exactly what you're saying. So all right, Matt. Well, again, congratulations on the, on the record in the book. I'm really excited for just like everyone else to hear it. And then I can just like fire off like 400 tweets about it.
I hope you do with that. That'd be great,
Right? Yeah. I mean, my only follower is Matt now, but I did 400 tweets about Hurry this week.
Honestly, that would be enough for me really, but no, truly though. Thank you for all the nice things you said and, and, um, and thank you for just like digging into it, you know, like it does, it does mean a lot to me to have people like you who, uh, you know, I think any artist is excited when someone actually thinks into the material. So thank you for that.
Hurry’s new record Fake Ideas hits all streaming services on June 25th - be a friend and pre-order it as well. You will get the dope ass book that I love so much. Thanks again for reading.