A Conversation with Foxing's Conor Murphy
The St. Louis band's vocalist and I talk about the new record Draw Down The Moon, Manchester Orchestra, how the pandemic isn't really over, and the Redwall book series.
(photo by Hayden Molinarolo)
About a month ago, I had the pleasure of speaking with Foxing vocalist Conor Murphy. As someone who’s been writing and championing Foxing’s music for the nearly a decade, it was the first time the two of us have spoke and we covered a lot of stuff including the new record, working with Manchester Orchestra’s Andy Hull, all the work that went into the record and beyond, and our favorite childhood book series Redwall. Before getting our conversation, I just want to express how incredibly special Draw Down The Moon is. It’s easily the band’s most immersive, challenging, and rewarding work as the St. Louis trio continues to separate themselves from whatever genre or style of music you put them in. I hope you check out the record today and then dive into our chat. As always thanks for reading. (And also one again this has been lightly edited).
It’s a pleasure to finally get to speak with you. Um I think - it’s been so many years - but back when AbsolutePunk.net existed, I honestly think we premiered The Albatross right before the week it released.
Yeah you did!
Okay! It’s terrible that I couldn’t 100% remember since I think I was the one who also set it but yeah anyways….I've been covering your band before Foxing became Foxing, I guess you could say. And then that album started to be put on a bunch of “Best of Emo” lists, which is great but is kind of funny because Foxing… I think it started really with Dealer, but definitely with Nearer My God….has kind of become this genre-less band. So does it feel weird when the band gets kind of pigeon-holed as an emo band still?
Sure! I think genre-less to our discredit sometimes to a fault. Yeah (laughs)
But that's what makes your records so unique and interesting. I feel like that's why….and you might disagree just because…. while I wish even more people listened to the band, I also feel like that's why you've caught so many listeners at the same time. Foxing hasn't stagnated…you’re not that band anymore that made The Albatross. You're always pushing your creative limits.
Well, I think that I'm one part of that. It's like, I think really early on in our career, people like yourself and there's quite a few people that would do this thing, we'd be playing in a basement and somebody would come up to us and be like, ‘I think it's so cool that I’m watching you in a basement right now cuz one day you guys are going to be playing in arenas!’ And it would be like, ‘Fuck, okay, cool.’ And like, I feel like, especially, you know, that's one thing, but it's also like, I think industry people, uh, like on management side of things or label people used to say the same thing to us.
And it was always this thing of like, you know, it's like telling a child when they're a toddler that they're going to be president one day and continuing to tell them that. So that one day when they're not the president, they're just like really sad that they're not president, you know, and it's like, I think that that kind of happened to us pretty early on. And I feel like it's only been recent that we were like, ‘Hey, we're not going to be an arena band and that's okay.’ And to be an arena band would mean changing something about our band that would make it disingenuous so that it would no longer be…and this is to even think that we would be capable of making the type of music that would be in an arena, which we don’t…but if we made something that disingenuous, then people like you wouldn’t like it any more, you know? I think that we would be failing in that way.
And the perfect example of this is: after Nearer My God our contract with Triple Crown was over, you know, we had like a deal with them for three records and that was over and it was like, ‘okay, cool.’ We're like free agents now and labels are gonna be champing at the bit to sign our band. Uh, and there were, I mean, there were definitely great labels that hit us up, but it wasn't like the, um, the rush of labels that we…I think like built it up to be, you know, like 4AD and XL weren't like knocking on our door. Uh, and that was, it's not like that was crushing by any means, but it was like this disappointing thing. I was like, ‘Oh man, like those people from the basement, they were wrong!’
But what it really made us realize is like, the thing that we are most proud of in our career has been A. how hard we've worked every step of the way and how many sacrifices we've made for it. And then B. how eclectic we've been in our writing and in our music, where is, you know, the thing that is commented on quite a bit is like, it's a genre-less thing. It feels like it doesn't make sense to call it emo nor does it feel really correct to call it, uh, I don't know, electronic or, or, uh, alternative rock or something. So it's kind of left to these more like vague descriptors, like indie rock.
Absolutely.
Um, or art rock, one of the most vague things of all time. But that being said, I think like that is something that we wear with pride is this idea of like confusing somebody that tries to like compartmentalize it into a single genre. I think that Draw Down The Moon is maybe the most of the records of like what genre are you going to assign to this record as a whole, other than like, I guess indie rock or something?
I definitely pick up on that. Nearer My God was a big swing and that's one of my favorite records ever. But with all like the twists and turns, you could still kind of assess it a genre, if you will. And Draw Down The Moon is a completely different animal. Not even like track the track, but just like minute to minute, it changes directions and it's such a thrilling listen.
Thank you. I think in terms of like swings, I think this one is our biggest swing, just in terms of really trying to like intentionally make something…you know, we really do want it to be accessible. We want it to be successful, you know, but at the same time, it's like, we also want it to be challenging. Uh, not only as a record to listen from front to back, but also to be something that is challenging as it is being released which is why we did all of our stuff with the website and the rituals using videos and everything. We want it to be this thing that keeps you guessing. Cuz that's the thing that we always appreciate with other bands or other artists - when they just keep you on your toes, you know? What are they going to do next?
Um, but it’s also like, you know, in part because the unpredictability of the last year and a half, but also in part of a testament that we knew early on that we were going to release essentially like half of the album before the album actually came out. And we did it very like strategically to put out songs that seems like they’re from completely different bands or different albums. So “Speak With The Dead” is this seven minute, epic kind of thing. And then “Go Down Together” is just a very poppy, uh, sorta fun song with sad lyrics, followed by “Where The Lightning Strikes Twice” that has this kind of like Queen throw back to theatrical rock music approach. We were trying to do this thing of like showcasing how eclectic the album is by putting together songs that had no business being next to each other so that when you get to the end, when the album actually comes out, it's like, ‘I really want to hear how this thing actually translates as a whole piece’ rather than this like, kind of, you know, especially in the generation of like ‘singles-only’ that we are now in where it's like, everything goes on a playlist and you don't listen to a record front to back.
We really wanted to try to like challenge that and say kind of like, well, what if we create a space that is like so difficult for you to pin down what the record sounds like that you're kind of forced, if you care enough, you're forced to just listen to the whole thing and see if it actually worked, or if it's just this kind of hodgepodge of different sounds and to, to Eric (Hudson)'s credit, especially as producer, like, I think he did just such a knock out job of being able to balance each of those things and transition songs into each other. And also with John Congleton being the mixer and being able to make it all feel like it is a part of the same record, but also letting the kind of music and the attempts at different genres and different moods kind of speak for themselves so that it is something that you can listen to in one run, but then also you can take them out of context and share a song like “Cold Blooded,” which is a very, like kind of more traditional indie rock song.
I really have found all the rituals and like pre-release stuff really interesting. I heard “Speak With The Dead” before I heard the entire record. And I'm an album-sequencing nerd so I was like, ‘Oh, that's interesting that they're releasing the closing track,’ because a lot of times - this is just a personal preference - I don't traditionally like the opening or the closing track to be pre-released. But then I saw that this is a seven-minute closer with WHY? featured on it and after I checked it out I was like, ‘Wow, I cannot wait to hear how this record journeys to that end point.’
Everything about how we put it all together and how we release it is always like a big discussion at times or big argument of like how things are released. But that was like one of my few times where I was like, ‘Hey, I really want it to be “Speak With The Dead” first.’ Like, that's the first thing that everyone hears. And I think the biggest reason why was like, we haven't released music in quite a while - it’s been two years or three years. And I kind of want the first thing that people hear from this to be like our biggest step forward in terms of ambition. And that is the closing song on the record. But at the same time, like one of the biggest things to me, it was like, that is the song that I'm most proud of on the album in terms of not just like how it sounds, but I'm also like really proud of the way it was written.
It was, I think the most collaborative song that we wrote on the album, uh, where Jon, Eric and me all had like really equal parts of bringing it to fruition. It started as only organ and vocals - that was the way I wrote it originally, um, it was supposed to be kind of like this, uh, I don't know, sort of inspired by the Interstellar soundtrack. Um, and it was going to just be organ and vocals and I brought it in and Eric was like, ‘I really hear this as more as like a synthesizer and expansive song than just organ.’ And I was like, you know, as much of a control freak as I am, uh, at the time, it was just like, ‘I just want to hear what that would be and what you would do with that.’ And he did, and he added like an amazing guitar solo over it.
It's just the soaring kind of thing. And then bringing Jon in, he completely changed the way we thought about like the second half of the song, uh, bringing in like this, you know, we like to refer to as the Steely Dan section of the song, but like even though it is the closing song on the album, it is also like, to me the most Foxing song on the album, because it is like, you know, the three of us truly weighing in, in a way that I feel like we never really have before.
And this song has some really heavy emotional content to it, and it's really resonated as a powerful song for a lot of people. Were you kind of expecting that when you put it out as the first single as well too?
I think so, I mean, not necessarily like expecting it to like resonate so well, you know, like you hope that something serves somebody else well but to also expect, like, ‘this is going to be so powerful to people,’ that’s a little more vain. But the idea of the intentionality with it was both being able to put out a song that we considered to be the most ambitious and representative of us as a band, but also putting out the song that is the most fitting for the time. There's a lot of, I feel like there's a lot of songs about perseverance that come out now or like about hope. And it kind of felt like, uh, it was important to release something that is about grief and about death, especially at this time, because it's like, I think we're, especially as Americans, we're just kind of like trying to forget really quickly about the past year and move on to the next thing. Like even right now, even though the pandemic is still happening, it's like we're already using phrases like ‘back to normal’ all the time and like ‘return to normalcy’ and, uh, you know, ‘the summer where everything's back.’
You know, I understand why we feel that way, but at the same time, it's also like, ‘Hey, we just went through like some pretty globally traumatic shit.’ Like, you know, I think it would serve us well to grieve a bit and to dwell, you know, and really trying to, like, I don't know, come to terms with those that we lost and what we just went through. And so I think for people that were appreciative of that, it resonated with them, while at the same time being something that I think some people definitely were not like ready to start getting into, which is also understandable. It's like, ‘Hey, I'm not really in a place where I can get into grief yet. I'm like still trying to keep my, my brain working.’ Um, so anyway, yeah, that was the intentionality. And I'm glad it came through for some people.
I really can't wait to dive a little bit deeper into the lyrics once I get my record in but some of the writing that really stood out for me happens on the opening track “737.”Um, I love the reference to the Mars Rovers. I love that the record is starting with that because it's one of the most human emotions coming from a non-human entity.
And I think something that it's also just really interesting, the way that it's like, it's something that we put on to a non-human entity and then got like so astonished that it did that like, ‘oh my God, it's doing the thing that we programmed it to do,’ but it's also just like…I agree with you. I think it's one of the saddest things ever, uh, both of the things, cuz, you know, they're two separate rovers, but like one singing happy birthday to itself. And the other one that, before it died, it said, ‘the sun's going down, my battery's low, it's getting dark,’ before it like ran out of juice and just like became Martian trash. I don't even need to explain why that's impactful. It's was very powerful to read about, especially when it's about robots.
And that song in general is supposed to be about age and about aging with other people. And I think the kind of a dichotomy between like we as aging people, aging around all our loved ones, we're all aging simultaneously. We don't appreciate that as much as we probably should or could. But it's only in the moments where you're reading about a robot alone in this cold Martian desert dying by itself that you kind of go, like, ‘that's really sad.’ And I'm glad I'm like surrounded by people and life and plants and animals.
And just the way the song transitions into one of your more vocally intense songs. You're essentially screaming over like the last half of it. And I think that is a really impactful and jarring transition that works really well with how Foxing is setting up the theme of this record.
I hope so. I mean, that whole part I'm screaming…I was really trying to do - I've had like a very new appreciation for musical theater and I kind of rejected it for a long time but I finally came around to like really appreciating and loving musicals. And I think the biggest thing is like, what I love so much is sometimes it's hard to understand like what the lyrics are while they're happening in musicals, but a really good musical actor is able to translate the emotions really well, which is why it's like, we can watch Italian operas. It's like, oh my God, there's so much heart in this, even though you don't know what they're saying. So that was something that I was really trying to shoot for this one, um, where it's like throughout the first half of the song, like trying to really showcase this sort of like vulnerable “I can't do this alone” and look at all of these examples of loneliness and togetherness, but then when I started screaming, I’m essentially announcing the track listing of the album but then also pairing it with the idea of like what would happen if we didn't consider each of these things, if we didn't think about age, if we didn't think about financial debt and sexuality and ultimately death, if we just ignored all of them until they happen to us. And I think that is like the kind of angry and desperate aspect of the song that I was trying to showcase with screaming and to say really, to just be yelling, like, ‘Think about this!’, you know, like to myself and to people listening.
No, I think it's great. I really enjoy that. Um, and also like, do you think “At Least We Found The Floor” is the saddest Foxing song ever, because I feel like it is.
(Laughs) I don’t know! When I…it was funny, it was like I was writing it with every intention for it to be this kind of song about, you know, when you've hit rock bottom, there's nowhere to go, but while writing I was just kind of like getting just so bogged down with like the news of the day, you know, like right when you think you've reached like the rock bottom, it's like the floor drops out and you're like, ‘oh my God, there's so much shit under here.’ I changed up the last line of the chorus at one point to really go like, actually, you know, the floor drops out every time. And so I don't know. I would be the wrong person to ask if it's the saddest one that we've made, but it's definitely the one every time I play it that I think I feel the most…it’s the most timely for me, I guess. So I get the saddest of of any song we've made when I play it. That's for sure.
And it appears in the track listing right before you get into the last three tracks, and it feels like kind of a re-centering of the album’s and its themes.
I think it was meant to be kind of like a palette cleanser, um, in the sense that, you know, the song that precedes it is be “Bialystok,” which is a song all about home. And the role home plays in your life, who home is what home is. And then the song after it being “Cold Blooded” is a song about vulnerability and crying and the value of tears. But yeah, like trying to kind of create like a palette cleanser in between them. That's like, you know, don't get too excited about anything…I dunno it might be like a bad place for that sequencing wise, but it was a place that we decided was great.
I just love how this record flows. And I was reading a interview that Andy Hull did a couple months ago, right before their record and he mentioned the two of you kind of discussing how The Million Masks Of God and this record are kind of like, like sibling or sister albums. I read that and then listened to their record and your record back to back and it's definitely feels true that there’s just some kind of like spiritual-like intertwining of the two records.
They are connected in terms of us working on music together while they were being made. But I also think there's something about Andy and I as writers that I've always kind of…I think he and I have talked about it a bit, but I think that it's something kind of unspoken between us where like, we get along, so, so well, like he's a very close friend but I do think that we couldn't be like any more different in our life experiences from each other. Andy is a father of two and a religious and writes about the role that religion plays in his life.
Son of a pastor. Yeah. It makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And he writes about it mostly in like a more positive way, whereas I am constantly writing about you know, Catholic guilt and in my resentment of Catholicism and Christianity and on this record, you know, writing about paganism and witchcraft. Um, and again, it's like, he is so crazy cause he is helping me write these songs about magic and ritual and not liking God and stuff because he's just a brilliant writer. But then I think that’s what makes them connected is the kind of the dichotomy that they present, and these two very different perspectives that almost like compliment each other really well, which is something I'm very excited to present when we do our tour.
It's really just this thing of like however you want to look at it, like the light and the dark or the red or the blue, whatever it is, just totally different experiences that when you stack them on top of each other, create this theory, like human experience, I guess. I don't know. I mean I might be talking it up too much, what I think they actually sound like when you pair them together. But I really do when I listened to their record and our record, I am always just kind of like, ‘Man, these are really timely … a timely pairing.’ It's like a real wine and steak kind of thing.
The first time I listened to this record, I was pretty floored to find out that Eric produced it. Essentially you went from working with a well-respected and tenured producer like Chris Walla to self-producing it. And wow, this record just sounds incredible. And I just wanted to give Eric props.
I very much agree. I mean, I think, you know, the way it has kind of a journey towards where we are now, it was essentially, you know, he….for our first record, he kind of came in halfway to the band and was solely kind of a musician on it. And for Dealer, he became, you know, kind of like a head writer, especially as it related to music and orchestration, any of the orchestral stuff on that record Eric wrote. And then working as kind of the liaison in terms of Matt Bayles who produced that record, he was like, kind of the audio liaison with working with whoever's recording string parts or horns, and then for Nearer My God, he co-produced the album with Chris. And then Chris mixed it, and then for this album, he produced it.
And there's a discussion of like is ‘Eric kind of gonna mix it or just produce it?’ And I think when, when we found out John Congleton was wanting to mix it, we got really excited. you know?
Yes, of course, he’s a legend.
Yeah. Like one of our favorite producers and mixers. But, uh, I think at the end - while it was a really great experience working with John - by the end of it, I think we really realized like the next time around, this is like Eric's whole game, you know, like he's going to write, produce, mix this entire thing, and we can do it all in the context of our studio and only outsource to another studio if we feel like it's necessary. But like in terms of personnel, the the next thing we do will be Eric's entirely.
Which I think it's really great. We did this thing and he and I have talked about it, whereas like I have known Eric and been playing music with Eric for over 15 years. And I have this thing with Eric and I think we have it with each other where it's like, sometimes it gets…it's hard to like trust each other on things. And I think it's especially hard for me to trust Eric on things. When he says, “I want to mix this album,” or “I want to produce this album.” It's hard for me not to go like, ‘But I know you, and I don't think you're capable of it,” even though the reality is like, he is very much capable and should be trusted to do it.
If he says he can and wants to then like, you know, I need to believe him. Right. And it wasn't until the end of this record that we had that conversation. Whereas like, from now on, like, I trust you implicitly as it relates to the stuff like you tell me that you want to produce and mix, like I'm fully supportive and I want to do that in the future. And I think it was, you know, and this was a tough record in so many ways to make, uh, obviously with the pandemic it was logistically so hard to do, but also like just in temperament, you know, we're dealing with a lot of shit in our lives. And as it relates to each other, like our relationship, between me, Jon and Eric was tough, you know, Ricky left the band early on with making the record and like, we're really getting to this point of kind of exhaustion with each other. And I think this record was really clarifying to get to the end of, because it wasn't really, until we were finally done with it, that it was like we came to those conclusions or I should speak for myself, but I came to the conclusion of like the number one thing I need to be better about doing, and that I will and am committed to being better about doing is trusting my band mates.
I'm sure that conversation you had with Eric about trusting him with the producing, and everything…I’m sure that had to be somewhat reassuring for him to hear it too. Cuz we all have that self-doubt as well too. But when we get that kind of like reassurance from a close friend, it just…it gives you even more confidence, I guess.
Well, and I hope it does give that confidence considering he's so good at what he does, but I think it's also, I think on the inverse it's like, I think the doubt…not even doubt, it's like a, almost like, well, never mind you can say doubt. It's like me being a close friend and also a co-writer it's like doubting him is like, you know, really just the worst thing that I could do. And I was doing that. And I think finally getting to that point though, of going like I'm committed to not doing that the next time we make something, I want to be doing it. Like when we're both, or I should say all three of us with Jon also, when all three of us are at a place where we are not just ready, but we are like excited to make the next thing and we know how we want to do it.
Especially like, you know, during the pandemic it was, I was so manic about everything. I was so like just in go-mode constantly. I still am. Um, I'm just like, ‘I got to do this. Now we gotta do this.’ Like we're, you know, never stopping because if you stop, it means you have to think about what's happening around you. And I think that was unique to me. And you know, as that related to Jon and Eric, and I think that is detrimental to any collaborative process. So anyway, this is all from you just wanting to throw kudos to Eric and I want to say “Yes, I agree.” (laughs)
You're a big Dungeons & Dragons fan player. So how thrilling was it to be able to create and develop a board game for this record with Adam Vass?
It was and continues to be just so awesome. Adam came to this with this perspective of like a true game designer who makes such original games - these indie games that are just so creative and fresh and original. And it was kind of like this really interesting thing where it was Adam coming with this perspective of storytelling and originality and then me coming to it with, you know, my love of, uh, Dungeons & Dragons role-playing games and being able to…like something I really crave is the mechanics of like how a dice roll really affects the outcome of something.
And I think Adam is much more on the side of how you can facilitate a great story to be told. So it was kind of this sort of bargaining with each other of like, you know, this is, again going back to like, trust. It's like, well, I trust you to like really create our story to be expanded on by the player. And then like Adam trusting me to go like, ‘I really want there to be like interesting original mechanics to the game.’ And so I think what we ended up with was something that just bridges this gap between Dungeons & Dragons and like true role-playing storytelling games that Adam writes. It's like the perfect thing. And it all comes from, you know, this original story that we came up with together.
I ordered one because my wife has a big Dungeons & Dragons player. Um, so we'll play this game together and with our friends and I'm really excited to see how it turns out. I love it when bands do unique merch items. And I feel like that's one of the coolest and one of the most unique ones I've ever bought.
Well, thank you. I hope it lives up to the expectation. It's funny cause it's like, you know, when you make something like that, you're making the thing that you want to play. And I mean, it's the same thing when we write our songs, right? We want to make songs that we would want to listen to. Um, not necessarily songs that will like get radio play or be, you know, playlisted or something, but like songs that we genuinely - if it wasn't us making it, we would love this song. And I think it's the same kind of idea applied with this game where it's like, we want to make something that is like, if we ordered this thing and it came in and we get our friends together really quickly and be like, ‘Hey guys, we gotta play this game and be fun.'
And with like this game along with the merch, the Patreon, the rituals, and the music videos, the album artwork and ultimately the music - is this maybe the most exhausting and hopefully the most rewarding Foxing experience ever?
I would definitely say yes to the first part is the most exhausting. Uh, the amount of work we’ve put into this is pretty fucking monumental. Like every single thing that you just listed there was like months and months of work. We're currently tomorrow hopefully gonna finish the edit on our third music video, and that music video is like…anybody that was there or that I hung out with beforehand will tell you, it was like just me losing my mind, stressed out about it for months. And we're not even close to being done. So it's kind of hard actually to go, like, ‘it's the most rewarding thing’ when we're so wrapped up in it.
And especially when I think there's this like detrimental thing that keeps happening when you put in…I think the best example that I can give is like, we did an animated video for “Go Down Together.” And it took like months of work and like hundreds of hours of drawing. And like, I learned how to animate for it. And it finally happened, it came out and it was like with the amount of work that was just put into this it has to be appreciated. At least, even if it's not, if people don't like it, it has to at least be appreciated that we like just did all this hand drawn animation. But because of that, it's like, I think I set myself up at least to be disappointed because there wasn't some big front page article, like “Band Draws Animated Video,” (laughs) and like that wouldn't happen anyway or because it didn't have, you know, billions of views on the first day or something and then it just becomes kind of infuriating, but the reality is like, No.’ Like I'm very proud of that and I'm proud of everything that we've done on this.
And it’s super necessary to like, just take time and go like, ‘No, this is really cool.’ Even if it didn't like, you know, make us a bunch of money or translate to a bunch of online traffic. And I think the last thing I was just saying about that is like, I think the hardest thing about putting all this stuff out is that, you know, we don't see human beings in person reacting to that stuff. I think we have our friends, you know, going like, ‘this was awesome,’ but like, because we're not playing live or like going out to, on tour or anything, uh, we don't actually get that feedback that we crave so much. I was like, you know, people that we don't know going like, ‘oh my God, I loved this thing.’ Uh, so that's, I think that's why it's like, I'm reluctant to say it's the most rewarding only because it's like, well, the rewards have been mostly virtual.
Oh yeah, sure. I totally get what you're saying. And while I can only speak for myself, I played this record for my wife a bunch…
Um, you’re not supposed to do that! (Laughs)
(laughs) Ah shit! Anyways, she also thinks it's the best Foxing record ever too. And….
Um, that's awesome. Thank you.
And so that's coming from someone who's like not quote unquote in the industry or anything like that, but, yeah she absolutely loves it and we also just recently bought tickets to see you guys in Chicago. Cuz Manchester is one of our favorite bands as well. So I'm sure it's such a weird conflicted feeling about hitting the road again with everything that's still happening over the last 18 months or so. But do you feel the excitement to go on the road and resume do your job and make money for your livelihood or is there still that sinking feeling with the pandemic still hanging around? It's gotta be exciting at least, but there's that side where it's like, it's, this is kind of weird, right?
Well, it's definitely, I think it’s already been really weird, but there's also like the kind of keeping hope at arms length aspect of things where it's like, I don't know with the pandemic still happening. It's like, you know, it's not, it's not totally over. So I will believe that we are going on tour when we're actually on tour playing. And, you know, I think that is what makes it weird. I think I am so hungry to be playing on a stage and playing these songs, especially like there was a period of time where it's like, we may never play music live again in front of people as opposed to like maybe live stream, but not in person. And I'm still kind of holding onto that and going like, yeah, I mean, I don't know if we're actually going to do it.
Like, I don't know if I'll actually see you in Chicago. Uh, and I'm trying really hard to like balance those two feelings of like I hope it happens and I'm not going to expect it to happen, you know? I think that is the weird thing. If it weren't for that, if the virus was truly eradicated and like everybody got vaccinated or whatever then I would feel very differently. I would be able to focus more on like, “This is going to be so weird to like be back in front of people.’ But I think instead I'm like more dwelling on the, ‘I don't even know it's going to happen.’
With some of the artists I've talked to over the last couple of months I’ve asked that question and I feel like that's a very kind of common feeling as well, too. It's like hoping for the best, but like, we won't be surprised if like, you know, shit all hits the fan again too. And that sucks. But I really hope Foxing are able to go out on tour because 1. it just sounds like an incredible bill with you and Manchester and 2. yeah, I want to see the new songs live and I'm sure you want to play them live
Totally and on top of that, it's like, there's also the aspect of like I seriously put in, an amount of time into this that like I haven't been able to have like another job or anything. It was like just a total investment into being able to play live mainly because it's like that's the only place that we actually really make our money - tickets and merch sales. And it's like when that aspect of the industry is gone, we're left with like releasing music, which is something that has never been like a profitable part of our career. It's like, it's just a classic thing of ‘Oh, you really just got to see that band live kind of a thing’ where like we recognize that about ourself, we're a better live band than recorded band, even though we put a wild amount of time into our recordings. I think that's a huge thing is like, if or when these tours get canceled, it's kind of like, ‘oh man, I'm going to have to like sink back into that reevaluating your life stuff,’ but you know, whatever. And the shows are still scheduled. So we're just gonna, we're gonna assume they're happening.
We’re all hoping for the best. And to wrap it up in a lighter note that’s not pandemic-related, I love that you are a Redwall book series fan. I started reading them when I was like in sixth and seventh grade in the late 90’s and they were my absolute favorite book series so it’s really rad that you’re into it as well. And it definitely plays into like your love of like role-playing and Dungeons & Dragons too, but do you think you'd ever make a Redwall-inspired record?
I mean, I think we just did! (laughs)
(laughs)Ah, yes that’s true!
The reality is I have sincere love of fantasy, whether as it relates to books or movies or video games or role-playing games. Like I love them all so much. And honestly it really all started from Redwall. That was my first experience with fantasy stuff and my mom would read those books to me when I was a kid and she would do all the voices and that set me up to…when I’m the Dungeon Master for when we're playing D&D, I do all the voices.
Oh yeah, you have to!
I did that Re:Redwall podcast - I did a couple episodes with them and it was like, especially in talking to them about it, it really reminded me. And then I talked to my mom about it and it was like yeah this is like the building block for everything that I love. You know, just the listening to my mom read these while just staring at the covers of the books and just going like, ‘oh my God,’ like, yeah, this is true high fantasy in such like a cool context with like all of these really amazing lessons and philosophies built into them that range over like centuries or seasons, I guess, as they're described in the book. But like, I don't know. I think that in talking to them about, it was like, yeah, there's like a role that Redwall has inspiration in terms this stuff that like, I can't really quantify as much as, you know, just say that it's like the foundation for everything that I love.
Yeah. It was definitely my favorite book series growing up and yeah Martin The Warrior is one of my favorite books. And I love how (author) Brian (Jacques) would write such descriptive scenes and how nothing was left unturned. He wrote in a way that was really immersive - it was like the first book I ever read where I felt like I was there. Like, I can exactly see what's happening. It was just such a pleasurable book series to read.
Yeah. I mean, in re-reading Martin The Warrior for that podcast, I think the thing that I really just like rocked me was like how much death is in those books, these children's books. And like, I dunno, they're discussing slavery and like mercy killing and all these crazy things that you're like, wow, like this is a lot for a child that I remember as a kid. But just never feeling like, you know, traumatized by it or anything as much as just like so immersed in it. I think every child should read some Redwall.
I am on the journey of purchasing all the books again because my, my wife is pregnant…
Oh congratulations!
Thanks! Yeah, we are having a boy. So I’m hoping when he gets older to read them to him, just like my mom did when I was growing up. And I'm really looking forward to passing it on. I just love that it's a series that's just sustained over the passage of time.
I think that is just so cool. And I seriously, congratulations. That's amazing.
Thank you.
And if you read those books that boy's going to turn out good.
Oh yeah I think so too. And Conor, I just really appreciate you taking out an hour of your day to talk with me. I love the record. I really think it’ll be regarded as the best Foxing record yet and I think the three of you just keep elevating to the next level with each release. And I really think it's going to translate over incredibly well to fans and even non-fans of the band.
Well, thank you so much. I thank you for talking to me for this long. And I hope you're right. And if you're wrong, then I at the very least appreciate how much you like it.
Draw Down The Moon is available to stream and purchase today.